The Power of Mentorship for Personal Growth with Victor Ojeleye

The Young CPA Success Show: Episode 5

Joey and Hannah welcome Victor Ojeleye to discuss the importance of mentorship and personal growth in the early years of a career. Victor shares his experiences as a mentor, coach, and athlete, providing valuable insights and advice. They also talk about the impact of mentors in different areas of life, including work and sports. The conversation touches on the mindset shift from fear of failure to a growth mindset, the importance of focusing on the process rather than just the result, and the need to find balance and prioritize self-care.

intro (00:00:00) - Welcome to the Young CPA Success Show. If you're a young accounting professional, this podcast is your ultimate guide to navigating your early career. Join us as we share valuable insights, expert advice, and practical tips to help you kickstart your path to success and excel in the accounting industry. Let's embark on this exciting accounting journey together.

Joey (00:00:23) - Hey, Hannah, How are you?

Hannah (00:00:24) - I'm good, Joey. How are you?

Joey (00:00:26) - Well, I feel like I just got out of, like, the world's, like, coolest therapy session. How do you feel?

Hannah (00:00:31) - Absolutely. I was sitting here thinking the exact same thing. Feel like that was the best way to. We're recording this on a Friday. It was the best way to wrap my week like this. That was fantastic. Like, did not and I'd not go into that conversation expecting that. So I that was really awesome.

Joey (00:00:47) - So for for the audience that our guest today on on today's show is a personal friend of mine a guy I've known for a very long time going back to college.

Joey (00:00:56) - His name is Victor Ojeleye. He works with Cargill. I'm pretty sure he runs a division of their company and he's in their protein division. And what we wanted to talk to Vic about was mentorship and just a lot of the personal growth that goes into like the first 5 to 10 years of your career and kind of trying to provide some lessons that we've learned at like what we hope is the middle of our career and how that can be applied to your early 20s.

Hannah (00:01:25) - He had so much good, so many good little nuggets like to share from his experiences being a mentor, being a coach, being an athlete. I cannot wait for y'all to hear more from him. He is just a phenomenal guy. Like feel like I know him more than just a guest on our podcast now. Feel like he's my friend at the end of it and feel like everybody listening will probably feel the exact same way by the end of this podcast as well.

Joey (00:01:50) - He's really the best, just the best dude, so I'm really excited to share this with you.

Joey (00:01:55) - This was a very important conversation for me. I got a little bit emotional at the end, I'm sure. You know, hopefully it didn't come across too bad on on the show, but this is a very a very fun conversation for me, a manifestation of something that he and I started talking about in 2009 that finally gets to come to fruition in 2023. So can't wait for y'all to listen to the episode. Dude, we made it.

Victor (00:02:22) - Yeah, we're here.

Joey (00:02:26) - How are things, man? How's Wichita?

Victor (00:02:28) - Things are great. I'm excited and really blessed to be in this community. I've got. I'll stop in this afternoon to a leadership program. That's the class of 2023, so I'm looking forward to stopping there. And then certainly we volunteer a lot in the community at our company and then personally, too. So things are good. I'm grateful.

Joey (00:02:52) - I was debating whether or not I wanted this to be your formal intro, but I was going to formally introduce you as Wichita's most eligible bachelor.

Joey (00:02:59) - But I was like, I'm not sure if that's going to go over the way you want it to.

Victor (00:03:03) - You know, that's always a running joke. Think I get that more and more these days because everyone's moved on with their life. I just work and volunteer, so I don't know how, but you.

Joey (00:03:13) - Build the house now. You've got all the you've got your well rounded.

Hannah (00:03:17) - Yeah.

Victor (00:03:17) - Like that.

Joey (00:03:18) - Absolutely.

Hannah (00:03:18) - Fits the title. The most eligible bachelor.

Victor (00:03:21) - Yeah.

Victor (00:03:22) - I'm just, I'm just trying to build all my pieces and, you know, maybe that last one will fit in sometime soon so..

Hannah (00:03:27) - There you go. 

Victor (00:03:29) - Grateful. Awesome. Well.

Hannah (00:03:31) - Thank you so much for being on here with us. This is our first time meeting, but I'm really excited to meet you. I've heard a lot about you from Joey. So I feel like I know you at this point, so highly of you. But he did tell me that you're really involved in your community, and I'd love to hear more about what that involvement is and what you're doing.

Victor (00:03:53) - Yeah.

Victor (00:03:54) - So I kind of break it up into a couple buckets. One is, you know, kind of my personal passions and the other is really like the civic component. And so the first part of it is I love basketball. I've played sports growing up, and giving back to the community has kind of looked different over the years, partly through my faith based involvement with an organization called Young Life. But when you're working with students in high school and they go to college, you know, you try to figure out what's the next thing to do. So, um, you know, I worked with Wichita State earlier here, and that's kind of a cohort of students that you're, you know, mentoring. And I think once that group moves on, I was looking for something else. And so now I coach a fourth and fifth grade girls basketball team that I've been with going on year three now. And so that's kind of where passion and sports meet. And then the civic side of it is I sit on the chamber board for Wichita's regional chamber for Cargill, my company, and it was a development opportunity for me.

Victor (00:04:56) - And as I got more and more engaged with it, it created opportunities for me to lead. And so in 2025, I, you know, am now kind of working towards becoming the chair of the chamber, which is really tall task. But I'm learning from those who've come before me. I've got mentors and so I've got to figure out two things. One is what's the theme for my year when I'm facilitating that position? And, and two is, you know, what are the big priorities for the city that I can help advance. So I need a little bit of marketing but also some vision and I'm excited about it. So yeah, those are the kind of the two buckets and then, you know, trying to engage deeply with my family and my faith community as well when I'm able to. So.

Joey (00:05:40) - I think the thing that I've most admired about you and the it's been almost 15 years that we've known each other and have been working together both in school but also in the professional world afterwards is.

Joey (00:05:55) - How willing and open you are and engaged you are in this concept of mentorship, which is something that I've really struggled with in terms of like, how do I even start with finding the community? How do I start with finding the right place to be? And then how do I grow, you know, foster those types of relationships as somebody who, you know, is always lent, it's, you know, been a little bit more on the shy side. Takes a little while to open up. What do you think it was about you and your. And just who you are that lends itself so well to, like, thriving in a mentor mentee relationship. And how does someone who maybe doesn't have that work through that and develop those skills?

Victor (00:06:42) - Yeah, Joey, I am. First of all, I'm super excited and thankful that we've known each other for this long. I continue to look around, right? It's like our little our circles of people who've invested in us through ups and downs and times.

Victor (00:06:56) - And you're one of those people. So first of all.

Victor (00:06:58) - Our group is crushing it, man. Yeah, we're. We're doing so good.

Victor (00:07:04) - Yeah. Um, so think to your question. Like I've, I've kind of seen it in a few ways. I feel like mentors are friends now that I'm a little bit older and actually talked to one of my, my first manager at Cargill. Actually, I got a call with him earlier this morning, and this individual has been vested in my growth over time, starting with the feedback that I've gotten. So I think part of it is feedback. Part of it is finding the fit and the people, but it didn't necessarily start that way and really viewing any relationship you have. It usually starts with what quality does that person have that I admire, whether they're really we actually were talking about speaking and how he has had a journey of, Hey, he was really good at speaking but sometimes wasn't as prepared. And so you swing the pendulum when you're preparing a lot.

Victor (00:07:55) - And now he's, you know, we're joking about showing up a little bit less polished and kind of going through that journey. And so you're talking about these skills that you admire and the people that you see. But also a mentor might be someone who looks like me, right? So have a mentor who's African American being a diverse or a woman or, you know, someone who can speak to those things you struggle with and actually make an impact when they tell you that thing versus someone else who maybe doesn't understand it or isn't in that hasn't had that experience. And so the skills that you admire, you know, maybe someone who is a good fit, but you can never find a perfect fit. The other one might just be someone who's in really like a position or someone who's had life experiences. So mentors in mind. It's not always about the job that you have, but you know, a mentor when was like buying a new car or, you know, you're, you know, moving into a house or, you know, people who just advise you.

Victor (00:08:46) - And so I think it's it's hard to reach out and say, hey, I want you to be my mentor. That's definitely hard. But yeah, I think you just have to have a little bit of courage. But also sometimes they just kind of happen and you're like, Hey, would you be open to connecting, you know, over this period of time, set it, set a time frame for it, and some mentors a more formal and then some of them actually I've I've actually been kind of tagged to a mentor. Like sometimes companies will say, hey, we want we want someone to mentor you or, you know, we'd like to you to build a better relationship with this individual. So I've had a mix, but I think trying some of those reasons why mentors and mentors are also learning from you right? They're like, Hey, what what are young professionals doing earlier on? Remember them asking me questions, Hey, what are you what are you liking about your job? And people always want to go out for coffee too.

Victor (00:09:35) - So those are just a few things that I think of, of like how the mentor relationships I've had. It's kind of like a professor, but in life, right? If you think about our professors at K-State. Joey Like it was like Dan Fisher was like we were always in their offices. And that's like people time. People forget the lost art of like, even if you are a straight-A student, like we were always like shooting for the best grades, right? We were studying in Hale Library as a group, but like, even though we were good at it, we were still wanting more. So it's like, that's the same way I've kind of approached this and don't see it different than like, Hey, this is kind of my life coach or a work coach. Obviously the ones outside of the company, you can talk about more confidential stuff you don't want to talk about with people at their company, but you kind of have to have a mentor outside that can just like talk about all things you see.

Victor (00:10:20) - You as a peer mentor. We're always texting, right? So kind of use a mix of that. And I'm just growing in that journey of how to do it. So but you also got to give others opportunity. You can't mentor everyone and you can't have 30 mentors. So that's another thing. You gotta like start sharing the love from the standpoint of, hey, give others opportunities to mentor too, because people will want you to speak or talk. And so those are just some of the lessons on the back end of that too. So hopefully that helps.

Hannah (00:10:45) - And love that. You brought up friendship as a part of these relationships too, because think that there's there's a lot of friendships that I've had throughout my life, whether I still have them or maybe they're past friendships that I would not have necessarily tagged them as my mentor. But then in looking back and reflecting on those relationships, absolutely, like those contributed to the decisions that I make to just having that wise counsel of somebody, even maybe a few years older than me, who's been there and done that and talking through these situations and how valuable that was for me.

Hannah (00:11:16) - But again, like I wouldn't have necessarily tagged that as a mentor or things of that nature, but like it can just be a friendship and just think the. Common theme between all of these types of people that you've had in your life and that you're being to people is connection and developing that connection in some way. So I love that you're doing that and that you recognize that for what it is. And I also have to say, especially love that you're coaching fourth and fifth grade girls have a fourth grader girl myself. So I think that you are amazing. Feel like you deserve a round of applause for that in general because that is awesome that you're applying your skill and your love for this sport and also connection and relationship building in, in that platform. So I think that's really awesome.

Victor (00:12:06) - Yeah, I'm grateful for that experience that actually the plaque from the team is somewhere out there behind me. You can see a little bit of team pictures from the season. But yeah, I love the friend point and just two things you made me think about.

Victor (00:12:17) - Friendships are great. One of my mentors like usually like think about, Hey, I haven't talked to him for a while. I'll ping him and say, Hey, can I go out to dinner with you and your wife? Right? Like the first time I paid for dinner with my mentor. Like, I can never pay them back, but like, it's just going out to dinner just to catch up and think, you know, you get out of college. We didn't have a lot of money and the ability to go to a nice restaurant and do that. A second thing is like actually helped them move some stuff out of their basement. They're remodeling their basement and did that because it's like they just needed some muscle, right. To help move. And so that's the friendship part of it. Yeah, there's a lot of the discussions, but there's more to it than friendship. And then the reason that particular mentor was probably, you know, you don't want to rank mentors, but I have this bottle of wine that is called the Discussion.

Victor (00:13:05) - It's from Duckhorn Winery. And my mentor says he has a tough discussion with his wife or some debate they bought, you know, have a bottle of the discussion and that's the name of the wine. But that's kind of a mantra for me to think about. It's always the discussion, but sometimes it's not about work or jobs. It's about life. And so it's a bottle that's still on my countertop, I take it, everywhere I've lived. So just a thought.

Joey (00:13:33) - Well, there's something you mentioned earlier that I think is really important when thinking about especially younger professionals like working up in their career. And like when I think about some of the historical problems with the accounting industry and really a lot of professional service industries is creating very intentional things within the company to allow for those relationships to foster organically. Um, the fact that Cargill is so invested in you and saying like, we want to provide the opportunity for you to mentor, but also to be a mentee on both sides. And we're going to invest in that and we're going to support that because we know that's an important part of your growth and development as a human, but also as, as, you know, human capital, for lack of a better term.

Joey (00:14:22) - That's something that I challenge every company to do. Like we always have to be looking for those types of solutions because if the company doesn't support it, that. You know, those relationships that next generation is just going to flounder. So I'm so happy to hear that they've been invested in you from the beginning in that perspective, because that's so that's so important.

Victor (00:14:46) - Yeah, I'm very grateful for it. And, you know, I don't I don't think I would. You don't see any of my former managers any differently than, you know, you're giving me feedback on my performance. But seeing them as a mentor based on the conversation you have is a little different. And I do believe that that is a journey that every company is on, right? We don't all do it perfectly. We're all trying to be more inclusive, more diverse, more invested in attracting and retaining talent. But that's a lever you can pull in order to figure out, hey, what do you need from a group standpoint if you're trying to target a certain group or what? What do individuals based on their.

Victor (00:15:27) - Different background experiences need. But yeah, there's been some of those forums, even for leaders of leaders, right? If you think about business resource groups for Asian Alliance or African Americans or women's groups, you know, professional networks at companies are groups that are providing a safe space to grow and develop. Right? Your entrepreneurs, you know, startups, those types of industries have those consortiums where you're learning, but then you've got to train the people who are leading those groups to. And so that's something I've seen Cargill explore. We've invested in some leadership training for the people leading. And you see you see the benefits of it. So yeah, there's a lot to explore there, but I'm grateful to be a part of that. But as you said, you've got to as I said, you've got to make sure that you limit your time, you know, all of it, because it's an investment standpoint. So.

Joey (00:16:25) - Well, I think I think more to about our time at Kansas State and thinking about your comment about how important it is to have people who have shared experiences with you.

Joey (00:16:38) - And again, back to the importance of diversity. I think no further than. You know, our basketball team, which is a shared passion of ours. And we've been very, you know, vocal about how much we enjoy the direction that our basketball team has taken over the last years with the last year and a half or so with a change in leadership and just. How special the campus is when you see Coach Tang and his staff. Just promoting a culture of excellence, but also a culture of love and a culture of respect and a culture of. I guess excellence is the way I think about it. Elevation and the, it feels to me like he is one of those role models that every organization needs to try to find somebody like that. How do you feel about that and sort of some of the changes that are going on there? And what lessons can organizations learn about changing a culture like that?

Victor (00:17:47) - Yeah. Um, you know, Coach Tang is.

Victor (00:17:50) - Is incredible. Uh, you know, I think every coach the K State's had has had their strengths. And the way that they coach has been the, I'd say the best thing at the time because that's how they got the job. Right? So when you think about Coach Tang, though, his approach has been very inclusive, I'd say.

Joey (00:18:11) - Yeah.

Victor (00:18:12) - And I say that because, you know, coaches are coming in, he's building his staff from all these great coaches, offensive defensive, different schools. He's had a great experience at Baylor and he starts pinging US former players and that message was clear. He said, this is your program. And, you know, we've been out for, you know, graduating, you know, 11, 12. Right. And had our run. But I think that involvement to tell the stories of the experience is back to that shared experiences that we've had. He brought us in to talk to players and motivate and inspire them before games.

Victor (00:18:49) - He asked us to come to games and talk to other former legends, right? And so we had our Legends weekend. And I just remember, um, you know, shaking Ernie's hand, you know, and, you know, it's just amazing the connections that he built with his team, but also among us to continue to foster that culture. And then he's a marketer. He's talking to students. He's given out his number. I don't know how he figures out all the time to do all this stuff, but he really sees it from a people standpoint and that uniqueness, in addition to his basketball savvy and building a great team is really something that companies can take. And he knows where his weaknesses are. So he surrounded himself with coaches who know each part. And that's where you have success on the court. Right. And it's really, really cool to see that. And his staff that are managers, as you know, we talk a lot about managers who do everything from get shoes to laundry.

Victor (00:19:48) - It's a whole organization. It is a full team. And they have a culture. We got a fortunate to kind of be in their pre practice huddle kind of. I brought a couple of guests and they grabbed us all and they were all in there in that bond. I think when you have a leader who sticks to their principles and values to lead, I think people really rally around that. And I think it's been unique. And, you know, as I said, each leader has their way of doing that. But he's kind of adapting to the environment that he's given. And I think they're doing a great job.

Hannah (00:20:20) - So let's back up for just a second. So you played basketball. I can get to say.

Victor (00:20:27) - I may have, I don't know.

Joey (00:20:29) - I wasn't given that information until this very moment I've connected the dots. That is really, really awesome that you were able to do that. I also want to point out something you said to that I really love is that the coach identified his weaknesses and brought on people to fill in the gap in that way and think that that is such a beautiful example of how we can look at our mentor mentee relationships to is we can really self evaluate and see like, Hey, where's my weakness? Then That's also a really good starting point for who we look to, whether professionally, whether that's in sports.

Hannah (00:21:08) - I mean like this translates to so many different areas of life. Like we can say, Hey, here's my weakness. I'm going to go find somebody who does this well and look to them for what they're doing. And it may not even be like, Hey, can I take you to coffee? Maybe it's just observing like how they interact with people or what they're doing and taking that and applying it in your own way. I can think of so many times in my career that I've seen people doing something really well, and there's been times when I've tried to like directly replicate whatever that is for myself. And that doesn't always work out great, but I've had to try to make that my own. And so I really, really love that you brought that up because that is really special in such a great quality of somebody who's trying to be well-rounded and develop something really great, whether that's personally, professionally, athletically. So I think that's fantastic.

Victor (00:21:59) - Yeah.

Victor (00:22:00) - Yeah. The acknowledgement of that opportunity is kind of the start, but sometimes you're just doing something really well and we all need partners to walk through life with, But sometimes it's also, Hey, here's something I want to work on because I want to make it.

Victor (00:22:12) - We can never work on ten opportunities at a time. It's probably 1 or 2. I'm more of a strength based person and actually I've got on my desk here and my strength finders, you know, the Clifton strength. I think it's really important to reinforce the positivity while you're growing because if everyone gives you feedback, then you're not going to know which one to focus on. And it's just one person's opinion. Like there's one a mentor of mine who says, Hey, it's just someone's opinion, right? When you do your interview, you know, you want to make sure you're delivered results, certainly. But when it gets into some of those softer things, you got to try to focus. And that can also be hard where you get too much information. Like I probably rank my trust of, you know, the advice mom and dad then like your mentors, you've known the longest, your friends, right? And you can't take everyone's feedback, right? Some of it with a grain of salt.

Victor (00:23:00) - So I'd caveat this kind of construct in a sense a little bit, too. But it's a beneficial way to continue to keep that growth mindset.

Joey (00:23:10) - Well, and the growth mindset, I think, is that's been the hardest thing for me to come to professionally is when I think back to our experience at K-State and you and I put in a lot of work, we put in a ton of effort towards success academically and working with people. And when I think back to that, when I self-critique. In that moment. What I've learned about myself is that most of that effort came from fear. Most of that effort came from fear of failure and my own thoughts about failure and less to do with what it should have been. Which was. Am I doing this just so I can be successful and pass the test? Or am I doing this to really understand and really grow and be the best me that I could be? Like, I think back to some of our biggest challenges in school and it was, you know, a lot of it was, I feel like I'm going to be a failure if I don't.

Joey (00:24:06) - Pass this test or I don't understand if the options are in the money or out of the money. And in reality, what I needed to be thinking was I need to use this as a parameter of where I am. And that's been the hardest mindset shift for me in the first ten years of my career.

Victor (00:24:23) - Joey, I appreciate you sharing that because I feel the same way, right? I don't think that we wouldn't have ran all nighters in the library to study for an exam if there wasn't that sense of urgency because you know your background, you know your ability to make that A because you wanted to get we wanted to get the best job coming out of college. Right. And I think part of it is that you have a perspective around like what defines success. And I think that's just that changes over time, right? It's like, you know, that you can get an A 90 to 100 or whatever. There's extra credit. And now in life, the signals of success now are gray, right? It's more about, you know, are you happy, healthy and able to wake up every day, really think after, you know, as you continue to have these live experience.

Victor (00:25:13) - But. Right. We're driven by. The actual task at hand. And so when you say that, I would say I shared the same in some way, shape or form. It's like, hey, I got to knock out this test. You know, I've got to have good grades because, you know, I've got to stay on the basketball team or my parents have really high standards, which maybe that's the biggest driver of fear. It's like sister got straight A's, got to meet that bar. Right. See? So it shows up.

Joey (00:25:37) - It was a cousin for me.

Victor (00:25:38) - Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

Victor (00:25:40) - And so whether it's a sibling rivalry or some bar, I think we all set the bar. But also we have to remember that, like I'm growing into and having these recent conversations with, you know, another mentor right about like, you've already been accepted, right? You've, you've, you've done what you need to. Right. Framing your mind to say like you don't need to do and achieve in order to be viewed as, you know, competent and high performance has been the anchor or the cornerstone for everything that we do.

Victor (00:26:14) - But viewing it differently is like, how am I actually impacting others? How did I use this opportunity for something? Right? We met each other, made great friendships as we were studying for tests that were, you know, anchored in, okay, we've got to do really good job in that part of it. But really, we built really strong friendships because usually, I'll tell you this, I think the strongest friendships are born out of going through really hard or really fun experiences together. And that is why we're here today, right? So I think part of that is like thinking about, okay, what did that actually create? And that's the mindset, that's the growth mindset of like, what did we learn from it? Or was another side outcome versus the very explicit outcome? And I think that's one of the messages in this. So I don't know if you have thoughts on that, but it just something I've been thinking about a little more.

Joey (00:27:02) - No, I think about this all the time because it's you know, I think back to that formative experience and it you know, it's easy for me to connect it back to sports, right? Because that's between Hannahs who's husband's a coach and is a huge sports fan to you.

Joey (00:27:16) - And I obviously with our shared experiences like, you know, there's so many common things because sports and life mirror each other in so many different ways. But when I think about it, I think the thing that I wish that I had at that moment was somebody who would say like, Hey. I'm glad that you're shooting for the moon. I am. I'm glad that you're doing what you need to do. Because, again, not only did we form great friendships, like we formed great habits, like I learned how to work that semester. That's the first time I've ever had to work for anything academically. It always came natural to me, but that year was like, Oh man, dude, we gotta grind. Like, we've really got to put the time in the effort. And that was very valuable. What I wish I had had at that moment was the perspective of 36 year old me, which is, Hey, do it, do the work, but do it not for the A, don't do it just for the result.

Joey (00:28:10) - The result does not define the value of what you're doing. It's the process. And it's You mentioned Dan Fisher, one of my most beloved professors at K-State, who told us, take care of the process and the results take care of themselves. I didn't internalize and understand what that meant until about ten years later when I was like, Oh, I'm now starting to see the benefits of all of the groundwork that we laid in. It's almost like two days, right? You do two days, you do all the conditioning and the cardio and it's horrible. And you're just you're in the gym and you're just working and you're suffering. But then you get to that game late in the season and your legs are there when your opponent's legs aren't. And you're like, okay, I see. I see what we were building. It took me ten years to get to that point and I wish someone had kind of been I wish I'd been able to give myself that feedback of You're doing it, but you're not doing it for the A, You're doing it for what you're building.

Victor (00:29:13) - Yeah.

Victor (00:29:14) - Yeah. And there's never a great time to start, right? Think we. We can. Monday morning quarterback our learning journey, too, right?

Joey (00:29:22) - Totally. Yeah.

Victor (00:29:24) - Wish I wish I knew this at the time, but I think that's why it's great to even just have a conversation about it, because I think the awareness of it is like, Hey, we're on this journey. We never want to plateau as well. That's another concept actually. Um, that the individual I was talking to this morning talked about when I, you know, got a new role and moved back to Wichita and that kind of thing and said, hey, some people plateau early. And so I think that's, that's part of that. You talk about ten years or however many years that we've been working through this is that, you know, you you don't want to you don't want to sell yourself short, but you want to continue to push to make sure you've gotten the most out of each stage. Right? Because it's like not every stage in our career is up until the right.

Joey (00:30:11) - Right.

Victor (00:30:11) - And you think about like it's not it's not all, you know, corporate ladder, corporate ladder, like some experiences are like, hey, it's a lateral move. You're going to have more responsibility, you're going to grow in this. And you're like, oh, you know, think this maybe generation or however you want to talk about jobs. It's like we want the fulfillment. Now we see that lifestyle, all the pieces, elements of it. We want to instantly, instantly, but like don't know if we want all the sacrifice or the sleepless nights to be in the big job yet. So like part of that too is like, how do we continue to grow and share with our new talent in our companies or people we talk to? Like there is a process. I remember watching there's a lot of Michael Jordan documentaries, but he's like, There will be a player greater than me. They won't skip any steps and they'll follow the game just as I did. And I think there's something in there like you just whether it's sports again.

Victor (00:31:02) - Right. But like think skipping steps is something that we have to be constantly reminded because none of us want to follow every step. Like it's just human nature, right? But we have reminders like my mom and dad are always like, be where you are, enjoy the moment, live in the moment, you know, the joy, the journey. And that is a big part of it because we got to be thankful for more than just that. The outcome or like the milestone, which we all love so much, right? Or the dollars or whatever it is, or like status symbols, whatever it is. Right? So anyway, I appreciate you kind of exploring that with me because I often consider, what am I? Why am I still in the office at six? Is it optics, Is it is it to show that I can work harder? Right. I still I still I still do it. But I get the feedback from my team. They're like, Hey, we're concerned about your work life balance.

Victor (00:31:49) - Do as you say and think. That's like we understand it. We're high performing. We get it like you proven yourself, right? And then now it's like, now can you really impact and go to that next level? So it's like impact is where that is at. So anyway that's.

Victor (00:32:07) - It's growth.

Hannah (00:32:09) - Yeah, love that. And I've struggled with that a lot just personally throughout my career, is that I'm always looking for the next goal. Like what is the next goal? Love the goal set. I love to work towards the next thing, which isn't, isn't it? I don't think that's a bad thing at all. But think if I could go back and tell my 20 something year old self anything, it would be to certainly set your goals, but evaluate where you're at and see what you can learn in that moment. Not be like so focused on the future that you can't focus on the present and learn from that moment in, in, in the present versus trying to just always focus on the future.

Hannah (00:32:47) - I struggle with that today too, in terms of just being content with where I'm at, like, like wondering what's next and, and it's okay to not know what's next at this point to like, it's okay to just ride it out and see what happens and to look around you at the mentors and the people around you and learn in those moments instead of just always focusing on what's next. And that's really hard. So what would you say to somebody who's maybe starting out in their career who might be struggling with that? How can they focus more on where they're at in that moment?

Victor (00:33:20) - Yeah, I was.

Victor (00:33:21) - I was just thinking of a question for both of you. And first of all, I'd say I'll start with the question, like what makes you slow down? Right. And so if you think about that question. I think we all focus on the work we do. The goal, whether you have a small business or you work at a company. I think we all do a lot of things that are already structured.

Victor (00:33:44) - So I was just reflecting. There's a book called Micro Resilience and Joey. We talk about books all the time, right? And concepts get stuff done. I think that's something we've been talking about, but the concept is around drinking water, resetting your alarms. And this one that is really unique to me is the idea that the alarms that we have, your alarm goes off, you're going to work getting coffee, you know, getting things done, going to the gym. I think we all go to every next step that we've created. And so I ask, what makes you slow down as well? I think you got the holidays. Take PTO. I'm, you know, at an event and I'm not on my phone. And so what can we do to reframe the opportunities that allow us to, you know, slow down? So that book recommends things like, for example, in your phone. What, at 6:00 or 530? You've done everything you need to do. Home is where they love you.

Victor (00:34:43) - So you put that as a reminder in that forces you to leave the office or put a reminder for when you want to get to bed. 9:00 Nighttime repair instead of saying go to sleep. Nine time repair tells your mind that, Hey, I'm going to recharge my mind and body. And so I think if you're early or later in your career, I've been kind of planning out the idea of, all right, we've got to create time. We've like, I work a lot this summer. I've gone to the pool more than I've gotten the sun on the pool like the last five years, like I've gone to baseball games. They say it's a great American pastime. I'm like, Vic, what? You've been missing out on this thing because you've just been in the office. And so the question of like, what makes you slow down is like, we don't have a lot of time, right? And so, like, as we get older, we start to think about like, what are those things we can do to balance? Like we talk about work life balance, but do we actually practice it? So that's what I'm, I'm on this journey of like, all right, I'm looking forward to like, trying this really hard thing called hot yoga on Saturdays.

Victor (00:35:40) - Like maybe I'll, you know, continue to, you know, work on, you know, health and happiness. But it's like I look forward to something that's different. So it takes a little bit of risk and some courage, but also like, how do we break away from the things that are like if you do the routine all the time when you break it, whether it's a vacation or something small, like think that, think there's some value in that. So and I'm seeing the benefits, you know, I think so How about you?

Victor (00:36:05) - I'll say I want to hear from you first, Hannah.

Hannah (00:36:08) - Oh, what caused me to slow down? I think that is very hard for me to slow down. So I have three kids, and my husband, a coach. He coaches football and baseball, so I am on the go. My kids play sports a lot. However, in that as busy as that is what does calls me to slow down is even just sitting at their practices and not being on my phone and just being present in the moment with them at their practice.

Hannah (00:36:33) - And we're big sports fans. We love Ole Miss football around here. So hot Toddy for anybody. You think it might be too. But we love going to Ole Miss sporting events. So like next weekend we'll be in Oxford for a football game. And I just love that because I'm present in the moment. I'm not on my phone with my family in an environment that I love. And so taking the time to do those types of things that we love and enjoy with my family is is truly what calls is made to my brain to unplug for a little bit and and close out all the tabs that I typically keep open in my brain otherwise. What about you, Joey?

Joey (00:37:14) - There's a lot of ways. There's a lot of places I could go with this. Let me start here. This is, for me, the hardest thing that I have to do on a daily basis, because when I think about anxiety and I think about fear and I think about where I am in my life, a lot of my concerns and a lot of the things that keep me up at night are fear and anxiety related.

Joey (00:37:41) - And so for me, the number one thing that has helped me is exercise. If I stop exercising. And you know, right now we're training for a half marathon. So it's there's a lot of very intentional training that's going on there. If I stopped doing that. My eating is bad. My water consumption is bad. My sleep habits are worse. I feel sluggish and that's the number one key. And I'm fortunate enough to live in a beautiful part of the world where we've got infrastructure and trails to spend time outside. I was talking yesterday as I was on my run about just how great it is that I can run in a city next to a bunch of trees that are turning my carbon dioxide into the oxygen that I need to breathe. And that was a very meta moment at 7:00 in the morning. But it's the hardest thing for me to do because the inclination to always want more and to always do more. Um, it's, it's something that we've been working on since the pandemic when we were all kind of forced to slow down a little bit and maybe reevaluate.

Joey (00:38:56) - You know, do we even want these high powered careers or do we want something maybe a little bit different where, you know, we're not working until 8:00 at night and then slamming back at dinner real quick and maybe watching an episode of Friends to provide just that little bit of joy in our lives. And so that's kind of that's definitely a journey that I'm on. One thing that helps and I'm going to brag on Victor here, because he's fantastic about this, is every winter for the past four years, Vik has sent me a curated list of Christmas playlists of his songs, and I call it Vic's Mix every year like that. And I've got all of them still saved on my phone. And every so often, like every year he has a theme. And this last year's theme is one that really stuck with me because it was friends and family and all the songs were curated towards, Hey, Joey, slow down, spend the time, because as Scott Van Pelt says, it's later than you think.

Joey (00:39:57) - We always think we have so much more time and it's always later than we think. And so that's I'm glad you brought that up because that's a very important part of my next chapter personally from a growth perspective is to be okay being okay with just being away from the office and think you'll be proud of me. I've scheduled out my PTO for the rest of the year. I've already got it pre-approved and pre-planned and there's at least one day every month for the rest of the year, so. Personal growth. We're trying.

Victor (00:40:33) - That's really awesome. Joey, thanks for sharing. And Hannah as well. I think, you know, the next question I always think of is like, do you go back better right after you unplug? Because there a risk that if you don't do it intentionally, as you said, I actually think books some travel this last weekend too, and was looking at schedules. If you don't do it intentionally, you're going to get the reminder that's not healthy, right? Your body's going to tell you.

Victor (00:41:00) - And so I actually told some interns recently, it's free. It's pretty risky to do something like this, which is like being vulnerable about, you know, the challenges we have. But I was like, look, when I was an intern when I was 22, 23, coming out of college, my first job. You know, I was working crazy hours, right? We were just trying to learn. You're trying to hustle. And, you know, think whether you start off working in 2023 or you start in 2020 ten, you're going to learn some way of working. And we were looking you see the signals from the people around you, the culture of the company you're at, whether you're an investment banker or marketer supply chain operations, and you're like, Hey, I got that wake up call. I was that person. So like, that's the lesson I'm trying to give you. I feel like, you know, I don't want to say like we're aging ourselves or anything, but it's like now you're like, now we're that person saying, Hey, listen to my advice or my experience because you'll get the wake up call.

Victor (00:41:56) - And it can be scary to be, you know, talking to the doctor about, hey, your vision is telling you that you need to take away from the screen or your body is telling you that you need to rest. So what can we do to avoid that? And I think that's that's the thing, because I hope and I think that the data shows that when we do take the time off, we come back refreshed. But also, I came from vacation August 7th this year. I've given myself some grace to get caught up on emails because zero inbox is like my goal. You know.

Joey (00:42:29) - Always, it never works.

Victor (00:42:31) - I want to be on top of everything.

Victor (00:42:33) - But I was like, You know what? I'm actually just going to do the most important things.

Victor (00:42:36) - My mind is free. I'm going to leave at a decent time. And it's taken me two weeks to get back. But, you know, think that's a healthier version of ourselves and think you both are.

Victor (00:42:47) - Saying the same thing.

Joey (00:42:49) - Well, I think you mentioned a really important thing to and this is this is a you know, the show is geared a little bit more towards young CPAs, but there's going to be folks who listen to this who are in our positions, as I would say, you know, still on the rise, but maybe a little bit more in the middle of where we would would be. Um, we have a tremendous opportunity as thought leaders in our organizations to really influence that next generation and build the culture around like, hey, what we did was not healthy, like my first taxes and I put on £30 like that was like 15 to 20% of my body weight just added in four months because I didn't have healthy habits. I wasn't doing what needed to get done and I wasn't taking care of myself. And I don't want to see the next generation feel the same way that I did because like, man, my 20s was effectively a lost decade for me. It didn't really I didn't really start finding myself until I was in my 30s.

Joey (00:43:49) - And I really just want this next generation to like not have to go through the same stuff that I went through that was super harmful. So I love that. You mentioned that we've.

Hannah (00:44:02) - Been in such a like hustle culture for so long, like our as an organization and within organizations like that, Hustle culture has been promoted so much that now we're on the back end of that culture and have felt the burn out. And like you said, like that burnout manifests itself differently in people for sure. So I think us even having this conversation is a great first step in terms of being promoters of the other side of the hustle culture and being promoters of like what that means and how to avoid it and how to still advance in your career, but in a healthy way. So I am very thankful that we've initiated this type of conversation because think more of them need to happen within our organizations.

Victor (00:44:53) - Yeah, 100%. I think the value in what you both are framing is like there's still room for high performance, right? There's still room for performing at a high level and knowing that you're shooting for excellence.

Victor (00:45:07) - But like it's, it's almost a debate of excellence versus perfection. Excellence is like you gave it the best and you're working smart, but you're not working harder to do it right at the cost of something. There will be times you do have to lean in more, but, you know, it's your point. I think we're all three examples of we've lived it, we've had the experiences and you can use those experiences to teach others. Here's another, here's another approach. You can still get to that same endpoint, you know, kind of like the senior year where you're like, hey, an extra hour of studying versus let's let's, you know, let's go out, you know, for dinner and connect a little more. And you're like, you know, think, think going out for dinner is the better option, right? And so the incremental is not there. But I still think I don't know. There's still a lot of value and not everyone wants to. But I think it's also part of our DNA.

Victor (00:46:01) - Right. Fighting for, you know, coming from a low income family, being an immigrant, you know, whatever, each of even just share a couple of things for me. But. Hard work is not just easy to come by. There's a lot of things that require that next level. Now, once you use it, you gotta learn how to turn it off because you know your competitiveness doesn't serve you well in every environment. You know, like you do it in sports, doing it work, probably not, you know. And so, you know, dating whatever it is like being competitive in every setting is not not the best. Right? You have to handle a different form of yourself, maybe a more calm or relaxed or funny, you know, being at a wedding or a social think. We all need to be able to balance that. I think that's part of that growth as well. So.

Joey (00:46:52) - Well, Vic, we usually, we usually shoot for about 40 minutes here so we can have this count for, for and we've we have hit that mark, which means it's time for our fun question of the day to kind of round things out.

Joey (00:47:02) - And we like to do this because, you know, sometimes some of the stuff we can we can talk about here is a little, little work heavy or, you know, more on the growth side of things. But it is always good to know just some fun stuff that's going on. So one thing I know about you, you are a voracious reader, but you're also a voracious journalist. And I've seen your journals. I've seen the sheer amount that you produce from a thought perspective and from just a, you know, just sheer content in terms of what you're doing. So what I'd like to know from you is taking everything that you've learned in the last, you know, 15 or so years. It's a little less than 15 years that we've been working. Um, what do you think is the biggest lesson that you have learned from something that you've consumed, whether it's a book, whether it's a podcast, a movie, something like that, that you kind of come back to that centership?

Victor (00:48:11) - Man, that is a tall task.

Joey (00:48:14) - Say it's a bit of a deep question. So if you need a moment to think I can bring mine to the table because I kind of have one thing in particular that I listened to that just absolutely transformed kind of the way that I think. And I'm trying to remember the specifics of like when and what I was doing when I heard this. But, um, it was, there was a moment and I'm trying to remember the exact year, but I was about four years into my career. I was living in Dallas, I was working in public accounting at the time and was taking the CPA exam, which for anyone taking the CPA exam, you know, that's just a miserable experience. Hannah is living it right now?

Hannah (00:48:57) - Yes, I am.

Joey (00:48:58) - I was living it in 2015, and there was a speech that Stuart Scott gave towards it was in the ESPYs, and we all knew that he was battling with his cancer. What we didn't know at the time was that he knew when he was giving that speech that his journey was about to come to an end.

Joey (00:49:22) - And it was the day that he passed away. And I remember it just hit me like a ton of bricks that this guy that I didn't even know, I've never met him. All I've ever done was watch him say Booyah on Sports Center, which was fantastic. But that was the extent of my experience with him. But the day he passed, they replayed this speech from the ESPYs the year before, and it hit me like a ton of bricks and I had an about face and changed everything. I finished the CPA exam, but then went into a different thing and started on the journey that I was that I'm living to this day. And the key tenor of that was it goes back to what I said about Scott Van Pelt, too. It's later than you think. And that was the mantra that was of his thing. And that got me thinking about. It's time. It's time to start. Like. Figure this out and go. And that was hugely transformative for me.

Victor (00:50:19) - Yeah.

Victor (00:50:20) - That's an amazing story. Joey, I you know what kind of takes something a little similar? I was thinking about what made me the most reflective about what I do each and every day. I go back to that community work strategy, M&A, the work that I do. What makes me feel satisfied every day. And part of it I'd say like, what are my motivations? So as I've journaled and as I've experienced the last 15 years, I think there have been multiple moments actually that have triggered my change in mindset. A few were, as I said, signals from self. So early career, you know, had a wake up call taking care of yourself. Burnout. I've had loss from very close friends. We can you know some can say Covid or you know, some of those large global macro events. But for me, I think one of the most transformative times was when I took the time to actually get a coach who helped me frame what I would call a better performance mindset.

Victor (00:51:37) - And I started to meditate and focus on how do I separate, embrace and just evaluate what I need to do on a day to day basis and trust that I've got to expect the expected about things like driving in traffic, expect that people are going to be cutting you off and expect that life's going to be that way and don't get flustered by those things. And so what I've done is I've been able to create this calm and kind of create these boundaries around, All right, I should focus on doing the best that I can and trust myself and just go ahead and just do those things that I want to do because we don't have a lot of time. As I said a little bit earlier, I think that the biggest phrase I can say is really seize the day, because at the end of each day, my goal is to you know, not. Miss out an opportunity. It's almost like you live for that. Like, did I give my all in sports? Did I give my all to the day? And I think that wake up call I had a few of them that I've had have really helped me continue to just push myself to find a better way to do the same things and do them at a high level and then at the end of the day also feel like feel fulfilled.

Victor (00:52:53) - I think going for fulfillment because we've all been so blessed. We are, our lives are miracles, right? Like we're all blessed beyond where we need to be. There's nothing we need to go out and buy or, you know, depending on how you want to frame it, Right? But like, there's so much in the Western world that we have so many resources. That was out in a building I was in recently. It's like it's not until that thing is gone that you're like, Oh man, it's really hot. It's 100 degrees. And we have these first world problems. And so think just gratitude is something that I wake up and think about now is like, man, I should be thankful for more little things. And by writing thank yous, handwritten thank you's, which is a little bit of lost art texting my mom and dad and family every day, which is a new practice. Like if Shawn Achor he talks about the happiness advantage. I read that book and I waited to say that because that I think it's like really about joy.

Victor (00:53:51) - And that starts with gratitude. And so gratitude is kind of that anchor for me and like, think if we can do that, then we're like, What else do we need? You know? So anyway.

Hannah (00:54:04) - I love that somebody actually gifted me that book and have not read it yet. So now I'm going to read it. I'm gonna pick that up this weekend.

Joey (00:54:11) - It's Hannah we've got we've got some homework to do. 

Hannah (00:54:15) - Yes. And I need to go watch this speech again. I know exactly the speech that you're talking about, Joey, but need to go watch that again. So I love that you shared that with us, big. But thank you so much for being on the show. Um, I don't it's been a long time since I've dated, so, like, should we just, like, leave your number in the show notes? Like, I don't know how this is.

Joey (00:54:35) - Ladies and.

Joey (00:54:35) - Gentlemen, Wichita's.

Joey (00:54:37) - Bachelor saying it now.

Victor (00:54:39) - Oh, man.

Victor (00:54:40) - I hope we cut the recording ten minutes ago.

Joey (00:54:42) - Yeah, we'll cut that part out. That's all good.

Hannah (00:54:47) - Yeah. You are awesome. Thank you so much for joining us today. Feel like again? Feel like I know you even better now. So thank you so much for coming on here and sharing this with us because I feel like it is so valuable. It was valuable to me where I'm at today in my career and feel like it's going to be so valuable for our listeners and anyone who is on their journey as an accountant.

Victor (00:55:08) - Yeah. Thank you very much. Thanks, Joey, for having me. Thanks for being a great friend. And, you know, this shouldn't this shouldn't be and it won't be the last podcast we do together. I feel like I've been talking ideas around advising people and financial worlds and other things too. But thank you so much. We'll be in touch and let me know how I can continue to help and be a good, good supporter of you.

Victor (00:55:28) - So.

Joey (00:55:30) - Cool. Well, thank you, everybody.

intro (00:55:32) - If you're a young CPA looking to develop in their careers, we're always looking for great people. Visit our website for remote work opportunities with Summit Virtual CFO or find all our open positions at Anders CPAs and advisors.