Intro (00:00:00) - Welcome to the virtual CPA Success Show for Creative Agencies. The go to resource for agency owners looking to scale their business. Join us every week to stay ahead of the curve and position your agency for future success.
Jamie (00:00:15) - Hello, everybody. Very excited about today's show. We're bringing on Michael Johnson from business choreography to talk about actual true choreography. He has a background in ballroom dancing, which he's really proud of and kind of it's cool to me when people come into the consulting business, from somewhere other than business. We have met people that are in improv and now someone in dancing. And so I think it's really cool when they can apply that craft in their previous life to business consulting. And so a lot of really good information coming out of this one. So hopefully you enjoy it. Hello everybody. Welcome to today's show. First, I want to apologize to the audience that I'm running solo. So no other person from summit here.
Jamie (00:00:55) - It's just me, Jamie Nau with, summit CPA. But I think our guest is going to carry this show. We talked a little bit before the show. I think he's got a lot of good stuff to bring. So, welcome to the show, Michael.
Michael (00:01:04) - Thank you so much, I appreciate it. Thanks for having me today. And, allowing me to come and join you in your audience.
Jamie (00:01:11) - Cool. Yeah. So this is Michael Johnson. He's with business choreography so, if you want to tell us a little bit about you and about your background and then kind of what you do over there.
Michael (00:01:20) - Absolutely. I'll try to keep this painfully short. but, I have a very colorful background. I actually started off as a dancer. I started dancing, ballroom dance when I was five and worked my way through the ranks. My mother had great vision.
Michael (00:01:37) - I danced all the way up into the professional ranks and danced on the pro circuit for about ten years. It's a very competitive circuit, and a lot of people don't even know it exists other than what they see on Dancing With the Stars. But it's a huge, huge world. The ballroom dance world. during that time, I, became a life coach, started a business, and started into my entrepreneurial journey during my professional career because I kind of looked at it and knew my shelf life for my body was going to not be as long as maybe I wanted it to be. And that's the same for a lot of professional athletes. So, danced on the circuit for ten years, started having kids. So left that realm and went full swing into the business, realm and, have been doing stuff in that space ever since, currently doing a lot of business investing as well as, just managing and running different, the different investments that we've gotten on board into our portfolio.
Michael (00:02:40) - And so we, of course, pull the concept of choreography from our dance days, which. Right, right. Obviously makes sense. And we've pulled that into the business world. What we saw was that so many businesses out there, and so much of the talk in the business space isn't surrounding how everything works together. And what we realized from our dancing days was that no matter what level you were at, you always needed a choreographer. And that really hit home when we had the world champions in, one of the businesses I owned was a competitive studio, and we had the world champions in visiting and teaching and coaching. And we said, hey, where are you going next? And they said, oh, we're going to visit our choreographer. And we went, you're the ten-time world champions. What do you mean? And, they so kindly explained that, hey, they help us see our shortcomings. They help us see our assets, they help us put things together in a new way, and they become our outside eyes.
Michael (00:03:44) - And they help us choreograph together the best of who we are and what we do. And I loved that. And I felt like in business, because of the speed of tech and the internet, there's so many flash in the pan ideas going around, so many tactics and strategies being thrown out there. And we looked at it and we were sucked in and we did every one of those tactics. And we had a book funnel and we did a summit and we had I mean, we must have tried everything and some with varying degrees of success along the way. And what we realized was that it wasn't about any one of those tactics or strategies, it was about choreography. And so then the next question is, well, what's choreography? Well, choreography to us, what we realized was creating experiences. See, I'm a professional dancer, and if you ask me to dance at any given time, most people are going to be pretty like, yeah, that's amazing. You're really great. But if I put a costume on, then it's an even better experience, and if I match it with some music, then it's an even better experience.
Michael (00:04:49) - And if I take that and I put it inside a show with other dancers that we're doing the same now, it's an even better experience. And so as you look at business and look at the different levels that each person or each company brings to the table, whether they're a startup or whether they're a Inc 500 corporation. It doesn't matter the level of experience that they're providing, not only for their customers, for their team members, but even for the senior management and the owners. The experience is the important part, and that's what choreography brings to the table. So that's a little bit of the history of business choreography, kind of my journey. I mean, in the nutshell. And, I guess we can go from there.
Jamie (00:05:35) - Yeah. No, that's a that's a great intro. So as I was listening to you talk there, I kind of I went down a couple of paths. So when you first started talking about your business and working with that original dance group, I was like, okay, it's kind of like a coaching type thing.
Jamie (00:05:47) - And then you kind of went down the experience. And so, can you kind of go into that a little bit? The difference between business coaching and helping businesses build experience and kind of what the what the path is for someone that works with you.
Michael (00:05:59) - There's a huge realm, and one of the pieces I left out of my journey was I did take a a pause for a number of years to become a master NLP practitioner, and trainer. And so I have that in my background. And one of the things that you learn right away is there's a very clear difference between coaching and consulting and being an agency, which hopefully this will help, some of the businesses listening right now, when you're a coach, you're an advanced babysitter, right. And I say that in the nicest way, not in the most degrading way you could think of it. So take it in the nicest way. And those of you that have been doing any coaches out there or coaching out there, you understand what I'm talking about.
Michael (00:06:44) - You're there to guide them, to pull out the knowledge that they have and actually get them to do it. I mean, the number of businesses I've talked to in my day, when I was in my coaching phase, where I'm sitting there saying, well, you know the answer. Why haven't you done it? You know, like, well, you know, and its excuse after excuse. And really, a great coach can help them be accountable when you take that next step to a consulting kind of a role. A consultant comes in because of their advice, because they have experience and they have advice that they can give to someone or a group of people and say, all right, let's diagnose what you're doing, what's going on, what the problem is, and let me come up with some prescriptions. Usually, the best consultants don't say you have to do it this way. They say you could do it this way or this way or this way. Now what seems like it's going to be best.
Michael (00:07:39) - And they take a little bit of a coaching approach, right? So there's a lap over and then the agencies have a lap over with the consultancies. Right. The agencies are in going. Well we'll build you a website. Let me just do it for you. You know, I'm the best website person, but let me just build it for you. And then some of those agencies take on a slight consulting view or a slight coaching view, where they add those elements into the agency. So those three different elements really help define what it's all about. What we tend to do is we tend to stay on the more of a consulting side where we come in and we go, listen, yeah, your show sucks, right? So when we talk about experience, the show you just put together, you took into account maybe the owner's perspective, but you didn't take in the other, or you took into account the client's perspective, but you didn't actually check with your team to see if you could actually fulfill on that and sustain it over time.
Michael (00:08:40) - So the idea really is that as we build experience for the overall whole, we have to take on the right approach. What does your company do? Is it purely done for you? Okay. Is it purely consulting or is it purely coaching, or does it have some element of each? And once you know that now you can choreograph that all together to really bring out the best of the business and the best of your clients.
Jamie (00:09:06) - So maybe this is a bad question, but I'm curious about when you're working with different groups. Which of those experiences are they usually the worst at providing? Is it internal? Is it external? Is it another one that I'm not thinking of? Which experience do you usually have to start with and be like, okay, this is the one you guys really have to figure out first?
Michael (00:09:25) - Honestly, it really changes per business. There was a time presuppose era. I don't know if you remember the company Zappos. But before that era and that concept of really over delivering on the customer service end and really changing your company culture, right? They really made it popular.
Michael (00:09:47) - Zappos really brought in the forefront. And before that era, it was really just like, who cares, right? Right. It should nobody, nobody gave a crap. Right? And now a days, the company culture is talked about a lot. There's always a big conversation around what your team looks like. I mean, I drive down the freeway here. I'm from Utah and Adobe is right off the freeway. You can see their offices, a beautiful, beautiful buildings, multiple. And you can see inside they've got a basketball court and they have a workout gym that you can see. And they did that on purpose from the freeway. Right. Because they're creating a company culture that's huge and very important to them to make sure that they can retain their not necessarily just their customers, but their employees that they've invested so much in. They want them to stay. Imagine that. And so depending on where you're at, I mean, if you're a newer company, sometimes it's about building the culture and realizing that the talent you bring in, it takes time and money and effort to train them, and you might want to keep them longer than a flash in the pan.
Michael (00:10:58) - But if you're talking to the longer you know the companies that have been around for a long time, oftentimes they get very disconnected. And I'm calling you out. All you big companies, you get very disconnected from your actual client, and then you wonder why your growth just sort of. You know, flat lines. And it's because maybe you're all about company culture and about how you're growing and the investments and how can we go public and all these wonderful things that are important. But you've gotten so far removed from your customer that everybody's forgotten about creating their experience. So I think I think it really does range depending on where you're at in your in your progression.
Jamie (00:11:39) - Yeah, that's kind of the answer I expected. I wouldn't expect it to be a one size fits all especially, you know, like you said, I've worked for companies that have had really bad, employee experience. And most of the time they also had really bad customer experience. And so like I think there's a correlation there.
Jamie (00:11:55) - It's like definitely with both of you, you gotta figure both out. So yeah. So I guess my next question for you is so you talked a lot about, you know, knowing the customer and knowing what their experience is. So, you as a consultant, how do you figure that out for companies. Do you go in and like start meeting with the clients and meet with the customers, or do you just take their word for it? So how do you how do you learn that?
Michael (00:12:15) - Well, depending on the number of clients they have, you can do it different ways. But it's amazing how quickly you can tell the customer's satisfaction by just talking to some of the staff and the team members. They can't hide it very well. And, you know, I know we're not talking to team members and staff right now. We're probably talking to upper management and or owners. The truth of the matter is, if I go in and I talk to your team, I can probably see the telltale signs of bad customer experience just by how they're interacting and how they're talking.
Michael (00:12:56) - It's very rare that you have a great company culture with a whole lot of people that are running the machine. It's very rare that the customer experience is good when their experience is bad.
Jamie (00:13:11) - Yeah, for sure.
Michael (00:13:13) - It just doesn't happen. Now, if we are taking it to that next level and we're saying, okay, yeah, you know what? Company culture is good. Senior management seems to be in good place and everybody thinks the customer is happy. I usually am that, you know, contrarian that comes in and goes, yeah, prove it. Let's see. And so, you know, running surveys these days is so incredibly easy. If you have a clientele base that is engaged and you think they like you, which happens a lot. They think they like them, then it should be incredibly easy to get their feedback by literally just serving them some more and giving them a I know I'm going to say the evil dreaded word free stuff, you know. But if you are providing a good service for your clients, if you go and say, hey, we're willing to give you this free thing which is valuable to them, if you'll just give us your feedback, this will take three minutes.
Michael (00:14:19) - They will all say yes, and this is a great way to do it. And you don't have to go. I mean, again, if you're a huge corporation, you can go like the Qualtrics route and get some like heavy data and get a statistician to come in and do all of it. But you could also just get a Google form. Yeah. And put the questions in. I mean, obviously you should do a little work on the questions you're asking, because we tend to be most regular humans tend to be crappy at asking questions. we usually have to have somebody that's great at the statistical analysis that understands a little bit of language. You know, I studied NLP, so I was big on linguistics. I love the concept of how we talk matters. So if you ask a bad question, you're going to get a bad answer. So you have to at least take some effort into the questions that you're asking and realizing, hey, let me extrapolate this a little bit.
Michael (00:15:15) - What if they answered this in a positive way? What if they answered it in a negative way? What would that look like? And now what kind of data would that be? And if you ask yourself that, usually you can get through a pretty good first round of questioning to understand your customer's experience.
Jamie (00:15:31) - So if I'm a small business and I create a survey and I think I've created a pretty strong survey and I incentivize my customers to fill it out and I get a pretty good response. Is this the best time where I should really bring a consultant in and say, hey, I've got all this information, help me interpret it, help me figure out what the next best steps are, or should I really have someone help me craft those questions? Or should I, wait until I actually start talking to clients? Like, when's the best time to bring that, the help in?
Michael (00:15:58) - I think if you're in that place where you're recognizing this is something you want to improve on, then you probably are better off bringing a consultant in beforehand, because it could very well be that you're thinking, I should ask these questions.
Michael (00:16:12) - And the consultant, with their experience having done it, is going to come in and say, I don't care about those questions, let's find out this. And so if you do it first and then you bring a consultant in, now they're going to look at that data. And they're probably going to say well thanks, but..
Jamie (00:16:30) - It's not over and over.
Michael (00:16:32) - And now we got to do that again. And if your client base is small now you're just hammering them with too many questions, too much stuff. Right. You've got to still you've got to respect your buyers. Anonymity to some extent, and their desire to be fans without being, raving diehard fans. Right. Because you have a percentage of your, your clientele that or that, but the rest of them are not so right for sure.
Jamie (00:17:04) - So if I have the data and I have a consultant help me, do you take that next step of meeting with people individually and say, okay, let's look at the survey results.
Jamie (00:17:13) - We got some really good answers. Do you mind if we talk to a couple of clients, or do you feel like you can get enough of out of just the data to kind of help the company move forward?
Michael (00:17:20) - In many instances, you can get enough to be able to understand the trajectory that you need to move on next. And that's a good starting spot. There are some instances where things are going really poorly that you're like, okay, can we meet with those, you know, ten people because they said something that was disturbing, and we need to get down to the root of the problem of it. I once went into a company where they brought me in as a spy. It was kind of fun. It's like James Bond, and, I got to be, you know, in on the bottom level and try to figure because they couldn't figure it out. And they had hired other consultants. And I said, well, let me come in and pretend to be just one of the mix.
Michael (00:18:09) - And as I did that, I was able to confirm their suspicion, but they couldn't take any action on it. And the suspicion was that the head of that whole entire department was the problem. Okay. And of course, you know, I don't take anything for granted, so I had to find actual proof. So you had to actually dig in. But the only way I would have known that is by coming in from the bottom end. And I know, I don't know if all consultants are willing to do that. I like it, it's fun, but not everybody is willing to do it. And, you know, they were willing to pay for me to do that. Okay, that makes sense. But we found out and we turned that coaching department. It was a particular coaching department. We turned that coaching department around and got just that department to actually be worth about $10 million worth of their sales. And then they ended up selling that portion out of their business ultimately.
Michael (00:19:09) - So it was a worthwhile investment when it was all said and done, and we ended up having to get rid of the top end, which is always scary. It's always scary when you have to get rid of top end leadership, when you're not sure that it could be everything underneath it.
Jamie (00:19:24) - Yeah, I think I think you mentioned it early on. I think sometimes there's a disconnect between ownership and leadership and, and what's actually going on. Right. So like if, if you talk to the owner and you have that initial meeting and you're like, yeah, you know, all of our clients are happy, this is what we provide. This is how we do it. And this is exactly what we're doing. And then you start talking to the team members and they're like, oh no, that's like 15% of what we do. This is actually this is actually what we do. And I think that's sometimes where you need to get it's not the leadership's fault.
Jamie (00:19:51) - I mean, it is a leadership fault there, but it's kind of that mid mid-tier leadership there that's pointing them in a different direction than the leadership thinks they're going. So the whole time you're answering that question I'm imagining you in your spy gear with your fancy car ordering a drinks with olives in it. You know, all that all that good stuff. So yeah, especially.
Michael (00:20:07) - Watch, you know, don't chew the gum the wrong way. It's, you know, I wish it was as glamorous as that. Sometimes it's just rolling up your sleeves and getting in the trenches. and it's, it's super fun, but the amount of good we can do from that position is really great. We also uncovered that they had a four headed dragon leading the ship, and that was a problem as well. And that was a much harder problem to solve because that was the four-headed ownership. that was at play. And and, you know, those are harder to fix.
Jamie (00:20:39) - For sure. No, I've always so I came from working in corporations and working in audit prior to coming to this.
Jamie (00:20:45) - And, then I kind of got into the consulting role, and that was the first thing that was the biggest challenge for me was noticing that the biggest problem with a lot of these companies is just the ownerships relationship. And I spent a lot of time being a marriage counselor and being like, okay, Michael wants to go this way, but this person wants to go this way. So, let's, let's talk about what's the best path forward for the company.
Michael (00:21:04) - So that's right. That's right. Yeah. It's, it can get a little bit, a little bit scary. I mean, for those of you that are out there that are smaller right now and you still are the leader of the ship, realize that as you build in other partnerships, you can retain that control. I mean, if you look at, a lot of people don't realize that someone like a Jeff Bezos of Amazon, he has a very small percentage of the overall company in terms of what he owns in equity, but he has a very large percentage of control.
Michael (00:21:36) - And so you can structure your deals very carefully. In fact, I think that's starting to get a little bit more visible to people. But just know that there are ways to structure your deals when you bring in partners to give them equity, but you retain decision making control. And, and that's a cool thing. And there are a lot of companies that do that. A lot of the big name corporations that you know of out there, Nike, Amazon, a lot of them will give up equity but retain, ownership essentially, or control of decision making because they got that company there and they, they need to maintain that, but they're willing to give away equity so that, that people can share in the, in the upswing of the company.
Jamie (00:22:24) - So I want to ask this question. This will be the last question before we get to the fun, fun question. But I think our listeners will really hear that comment, and they'd be mad if I didn't ask this.
Jamie (00:22:33) - So as a CEO or as an owner who wants to keep the control, what's the next steps to make sure that I'm actually aware of what's happening with my company? Again, I'm in the CEO role. This is this is the direction. Like, how do I make sure that my company isn't going a different direction from me, even when I do have that so-called control?
Michael (00:22:52) - Right? I think it's about the people that you put in place and making sure that they're in alignment with your values and the core direction you're going. I also think that as you get to that stage where that's a thing where you've hired on a C-suit and maybe you've removed yourself out of that C-suit, which is, you know, that's not that far off for many companies. Once you do that, I think you become sort of the marriage counselor. And I think a lot of ownership, positions, they think when they've removed themselves and put in a C-suite that they're done vacation time. I'm going to go off and travel around the world.
Michael (00:23:39) - Well, you know, but the thing is, is that your decision-making abilities and your ability to get that company to the point where it could have. C-suite. That's what got you there. And you've got to keep sharing that with the C-suite. You've got to keep making sure that they're on board with your mission and the direction you're going. And I call that alignment. And as soon as you're out of alignment, that's usually where you get people in that C-suite that are trying to take over hostile takeovers. Right. You've got the CEO that's like, I'm going to do this behind everybody's back, or you've got the CFO that's like, well, I'm not going to tell them about what's going on in the in the finances. Right. And that happens as soon as the owners or in some cases, multiple owners disconnect themselves from the C-suite. And that's a big, big challenge. But if you can remain in a position where you're sharing your vision and alignment, then usually you can avoid that.
Jamie (00:24:35) - And I think that the big part of that, to me, is it's okay to admit you make a mistake, you know, especially when it comes to hiring people. Like, if you're looking at your C-suite and you put someone in there that either you just didn't know that well. And like based on initial conversations, you thought you were on the same alignment with each other, but then everything, every conversation you have with them, they're pushing back, and then they come back to you and say, hey, guess what I did today? And you're like, oh, that's not the direction we want to be going. Sometimes you just got to move on from that mistake you made and find the right people. Because I agree 100%. And again, I'm not a I'm not an owner, but I obviously run a department where I make sure that the heads of my departments are on the same page with me over and over again, because I think that that is really important.
Michael (00:25:14) - Absolutely, absolutely.
Jamie (00:25:17) - All right. So, let's get to the fun question. So, I loved your introduction. I don't know if we've had a dancer on the show before. So I have to take advantage of this. And so I'm gonna go back to I'm gonna go back to entertainment because that's, that's the fun place to go. So, there's a lot of movies that have, really fun and key dance scenes in it. so I'm gonna ask you, what is the most memorable dance scene in a movie that you've ever seen that you go back to and draw upon?
Michael (00:25:42) - That's a loaded question because I, I am I fear that that by memorable you're also including. Good.
Jamie (00:25:51) - No. What's the one you're like, wow, that's just a great a great dancing that just that just warms your heart. Okay, okay.
Michael (00:25:57) - That's fair. Mind you, there are very, very it's a very rare occasion that there are good dance scenes.
Jamie (00:26:05) - Of course. Yeah.
Michael (00:26:06) - Actually, recently some of the cartoons are using actual dancers.
Michael (00:26:11) - And so, like Puss in Boots, the recent one had a dance scene in it, and, it might have been the original. And, you know, they used real dancers to model it after and do the CG after. And so some of that dancing was actually quite good. Yeah. But, I would say probably. One that always sticks in my head is some of the dance scenes from, Dirty Dancing. Okay, some of those. They weren't good dancers. None of them were. Patrick Swayze was not a good ballroom dancer. I mean, he's a good general dancer, but he just. But they were they were in the context of the story. It was really. They were really fun.
Michael (00:26:57) - Yeah. Yeah. So I think I think probably that one, it's probably one of the classics.
Jamie (00:27:03) - I think, I'm gonna go with a more recent one, but something similar. And it's, it's the reason you're gonna like this one because they, they know it's bad dancing.
Jamie (00:27:11) - So it's, it's Silver Linings Playbook. I don't know if you've seen that with Bradley Cooper and Jennifer Lawrence. yeah. It's the whole lot of the theme is based on them going to this, this dance competition. And they do this just horrible. I mean, it was fun and it's a big part of the movie and you really enjoy the dance scene. But then at the end when they do the dancing, like the judges come and like, give them, like they're all acting like it's the greatest dance and all their friends acting like it's the greatest dance ever. And the judges are like 1.2 and 1.4 and like, they had to get like a two to win, to not like, to win some amount of money or something like that. And of course, they'd get just over the two and it's this huge celebration. So, that's one they should definitely check out. It's less and less bad. Dancing makes it hard for you to watch movies.
Jamie (00:27:50) - I guess I.
Michael (00:27:50) - Should have said the the movie that my wife was in. She was in, the newest show. We dance and.
Jamie (00:27:56) - Oh, okay.
Michael (00:27:57) - She was Richard Gear's coach during that time, and. Oh, okay. And so that was fun. It was fun. She got to be in the movie. She danced with Bobby Cannavale in that movie.
Jamie (00:28:07) - Oh, that's cool too.
Michael (00:28:08) - So I guess I could have said that. But even then they for as many ballroom dancers that were the real deal and legit that they brought on to the show to do, they showed very little good dancing, which was unfortunate.
Jamie (00:28:23) - Well, what we could do is, we could go back and edit and make it. So that's your answer. So you don't get in trouble with your wife. Like, we could probably find a way to make that work if you want. No.
Michael (00:28:32) - I don't watch this show.
Jamie (00:28:34) - What do you mean? If, of course, you will see.
Michael (00:28:37) - She's like, oh, you're.
Michael (00:28:38) - On a.
Michael (00:28:39) - Virtual CFO.
Jamie (00:28:40) - You're in a CPA podcast. Can't wait to add that one to my list. Awesome. So, so right at the end here, and I, I love to give our guests that that final thought. I think you've given tons of pearls of wisdom here, but I want you just to have that one last chance to, to kind of let our listeners know, what they should be thinking about to make their business better.
Michael (00:28:59) - Yeah, absolutely. I really am a proponent for choreography and experience. And so if you just replace the word choreography with experience, you've got to put together an experience. If you we've all been to those events that suck eggs and you're like, I'd rather stick a fork in my eye than attend another session of this event. And that means they didn't put together a great experience. And there's no excuse for that. Not in today's era, not with the amount of information and the people that are incredible at creating experiences.
Michael (00:29:36) - There is zero excuse for it. I don't care if it's a CPA convention or if it's, you know, underwater basket weaving. I don't care what it is. You need to make sure that your experience that you're creating for your customers. Your team and yourself may be most importantly. Is wonderful and is great. And if you don't do that, it's all going to come back to bite you somewhere. So, work on the choreography in your business and that's going to make sure that the needle moves for you.
Jamie (00:30:12) - Yeah, I think the point I've heard you say earlier is, it's make sure you have the accurate picture of what that experience for people. So don't just assume, you know, ask your employees, ask your customers, ask people what. And I think framing it in that way would really make a great question. And I'm sure those types of questions that you can help a company build is what experience are you getting with us? Is your experience of frustration and experience of, just a wheel turning over and over again that doesn't really provide anything for me.
Jamie (00:30:40) - Like what experience are you getting? And then once you understand that, it's going to make it easy to fix it. So if our if someone's listening to this podcast and they, they're like, yes, I need to provide a better experience for someone that deals with my company, how would they get hold of you?
Michael (00:30:53) - Oh, easy. find us at, bizchoreo.com you can find more about us there. And if you're just interested in hearing more content from me, you can check me out at Michael Johnson Choreo at, Instagram or Facebook or wherever. We're on all the socials. We have a podcast too, that, one of your.
Jamie (00:31:19) - Jody? Yeah, Jody was on there and unfortunately couldn't make it today, so that's okay.
Michael (00:31:23) - But Jody was on our show, so you should go at least listen to his episode because he was awesome. And, yeah. So we're all over the place.
Michael (00:31:31) - You can find us, I hope, in a lot of different ways.
Jamie (00:31:36) - And just so everybody knows, listener wise, I have seen Jody dancing. It's not pretty. So I would I was going to throw that out there because he's going to come on some podcast and tell everybody he's a great dancer and he's not. So just so everybody knows I out there. All right. Well, thanks for joining us. And yeah, this was a fun episode.
Michael (00:31:51) - Absolutely. Thanks for having me.
Outro (00:31:52) - Enjoy this podcast. Visit our website summitCPA.Net to get more tips and strategy for achieving business success. We're here to be a resource in this ever-changing industry.
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