The Modern CPA Success Show: Episode 8
Being a Virtual CFO is about being creative and flexible, but if you want to scale anything or delegate your work to staff, creating a process is absolutely essential, so we are sitting down with Adam Hale to talk about how to build a process for your Virtual CFO services. When we are working with our clients, we usually allow things to flow to fit the client’s needs, but everything we do behind the scenes is backed by processes and systems.
In this episode, we talk about how Summit CPA balances the need for creativity and flexibility with clients; and the need to standardize for the purpose of scaling.
Jamie Nau: Welcome to Episode 8 of the podcast. Today we are talking about one of my favorite subjects, and I believe one of Adam’s favorite subjects too, because were talking to the Director of Accounting, and the COO about process. So I think processes is super important. You know, I think a lot of times when I talk with peers and people about moving into the virtual CFO space, a lot of people think there's not a lot of process around it. They think that it's all about being creative, it's about being consultants, and it's kind of doing what your client wants. But believe it or not, the process is the key. You know, having processes in place is really key to the services. So I want to start off with Adam. How do you look at process as the COO of a virtual CFO firm?
Adam Hale: Well like you said, I mean, it is about being creative and being able to do all these other things, but in order to do it, you have to have some kind of systems behind that, in order to be able to pull that information out. More importantly, I don't know that the processes are that necessary if you're the solopreneur, and you're just solo and you're, you know, using your knowledge and leveraging your experience. But if you want to scale anything or take on any additional work that you want to leverage to someone else, which most of us want to, you know, most of us want to be self-employed. We want to be business owners. And whenever you get those opportunities to do, whether it's back office work or there's always some heavy lifting that needs to be done with clients, you really need to make sure that you kind of carve out a process. So scalability is one thing process creates. The other thing is repeatability. So understanding what you do and what you're good at, and then creating the process around it, it also helps you eliminate what you don't want to do, or what you're not good at because you just can't build a process for that. So is something is too snowflake, not to say that we don't take on snowflake stuff because of course we do as everyone does. But if it's too snowflake all the time, it's not scalable, it's not repeatable, then guess what? It's not going to be profitable. So unless you're just charging like a total high rate just for whatever that new thing is, I mean, if you really want to grow your firm in your practice, and you want to be able to bring people in and train people up and really scale your practice and create this court system, you have to have process. It's a, do not pass go.
Jamie Nau: I think to your point there, Adam, I remember when I first started at Summit, so I came on as a CFO, and I think I was the second or third CFO that joined, and at time I talked to you about, you know, what we're delivering to the client. You'd say, just do what I did. You know, this is how I do it. It's like, well, what is my first meeting of the month going to be about? And you were just like, just talk forecasting, and it's like, okay, well, how do I do that? And so I think at that point when Summit was scaling, it was a lot of, you know, we know what we deliver, we know what our overall package is, but how do we deliver that? What's the process behind delivering that? So can you talk a little bit about those early days in the movement from, you know, just do what Adam and Jody do, to having up to seven other CFOs and have them all delivering the same process and same reports that you do.
Adam Hale: Well, I think the big thing to remember is not every meeting, not every client is going to be the same amongst all seven, and that's not what we're talking about. So it's not you know, this isn't paint by numbers by any means. But what we did find is that in some instances where there shouldn't have been, you know, a snowflake process or an idea, Jody and I were in two totally different worlds. Now it worked. It was fine. Like he did his thing. I did my thing. The client was going to be well-served either way, we just have different ways to get into it. What we found, though, whenever we went to scale and we went to bring people in much like yourself and other people that just didn't have necessarily the same experience, because keep in mind, like it wasn't that Jody and I just have a ton of knowledge, and we're super smart people. We just had the opportunity of like slowly growing into this thing over the course of years, and accumulating a lot of experience to be able to do that. Well, whenever you bring in very smart, very capable people that have been in the industry or somewhere else, they might not have had that full opportunity. So you have to have some kind of foundation and platform to be able to launch from. So it started really like, what you said around, hey, here's the meeting cadence, and then it went into a little deeper. Like these are the things that you should be talking about. Then from there, we backfilled in. So, okay, in order to set us up for that meeting and talk through those points, these things should already be in place. And those things behind the scenes that we're talking about, those are the things that need to have all the process. Let your meeting be a little snowflake. Let the client take you in different directions. That's not a problem. It's just the setup for those standard meetings that become super important. So that's kind of how we evolved. To your point is just, you know, whenever you came in we're just like, what the heck Jamie? You can't do it that way, or why would you say that? Or why wouldn't you go in this direction? So, you know, we put more guardrails around some things, you know, in order to have those conversations. But back end processes, especially as it relates to like the easy ones, are back office stuff, right? Like 100 percent of your back office stuff should be process, even if it's a little bit custom for this client, that client. You know, we use jetpack. I know you're the jetpack guru, as the accounting director. That's your life and where you live, and that gives us the ability to have those S.O.Ps, those Standard Operating Procedures in place so that everybody has their process, has their workflow, super important. I know a lot of firms that I work with use carbon as well. That's a great platform as well.
Jamie Nau: Yeah, I know. The one thing that we've been talking a lot about at Summit and this is, you know, there's a lot of 80/20 rules out there. But this is another 80/20 rule we've been talking about, is we want to have 80 percent of what we do documented and standardized. That way we can be super creative and do a nice job with the other 20 percent. And that's what you talk about, as you know, when I hop into a meeting, if I have everything buttoned down and I know that my financial statement presentation is tight, and I know that's what I'm talking about in this meeting, it gives me the freedom to take that meeting whenever I want to. And that's kind of the 20 percent part of that rule. Then let’s standardized 80 percent so we can be really creative with the 20 percent, because honestly, every CFO we've ever hired is coming to us because they want to be creative. So it really is that 20 percent that's important to them, but it is the 80 percent that's important to us. You mentioned Jetpack, and we moved to Jetpack because of the standard operating procedures. We knew we needed standard operating procedures. We needed stuff documented. We needed to standardize as best as we could and Jetpack has been a great tool for us in that sense. Again, anybody I talked to within Summit expects to hear Jetpack from me every time we talk, because it's really important to get those procedures documented and have that built. So I think that is super important
Adam Hale: Well and, everybody's got their own style. So you want to give them that freedom to do that kind of stuff, and you do have to be careful. I think with some people, and it just depends on the person's personality, but I think at one point we were too process heavy, to the point where the delivery came off like paint by numbers, and we did get some feedback from clients like, I don't know if this is really a fit for me. Like, I thought I'd be a little bit more custom. So we had to, like, pull that back a little bit and say, hey, like what we meant was this is the process behind the scenes. But whenever you get on here, like, don't try to retrofit every solution to that client. That's your job as a consultant, not to really always provide answers. It's not one of those things where I think a lot of CPA firms, and a lot of CEOs and advisors, it's just like, I am The Wizard of Oz asked me a question and I'll give you an answer. Like, I don't really see that as our roles as advisors. I think that it's more of when you get into those meetings, it's more about kicking over rocks, challenging the client, holding them accountable. You know, I really like the four disciplines of execution. You were talking about process, and I know E-Myth is a big book that we used that we started with Summit CPA early on, that was more of our like foundation. We wanted repeatable processes. We wanted to leverage people. Then as you're able to get those processes in place, the one thing you have to make sure that you do, and that you bring into the meeting and the process is just that cadence of accountability. That last step of those four disciplines of execution that we talk about here in the firm, as well as just making sure you're holding the client accountable, you're making sure you're holding the person on the team accountable to the process. Those kind of things.
Jamie Nau: I think that our clients are better served that way as well. I think the one thing that I've noticed since we've become a little more structured is twofold. One, they know what to expect. They know at the first meeting of the month that we're going to sit down, or we're going to talk about pipeline, and we're going to talk about forecasting, and just to have that expectation makes meeting a lot more comfortable. There's just that stigma about coming into a meeting where there's no agenda that no one knows what you're going to talk about. Everybody's on edge a little bit, so they know what they're coming into. It makes it easier.
Adam Hale: Or it’s just a waste of time, right? People are just like, do I need to be here? You know, that's kind of a thing.
Jamie Nau: Yeah, that's the other thing, is when you have your meetings choreograph like that, like okay, we're going to talk pipeline, and we're going to talk forecast. They have the right people in the meeting. Last thing you want to do is to be talking about pipeline to someone that has never heard the word pipeline. So it helps them get the right people in the meetings. I think the other part that it does, and I think this is exactly what you were hitting on, is that it allows freedom. I think this is something that we made the mistake of early on is we wanted everybody to deliver everything the same. When to be honest, if you were to listen to an Adam meeting versus a Jamie meeting, there's going to be a difference there. Not that one was better than the other. We want to give our team the ability to be who they are and deliver things the way they are that match their personality. So as an owner, was that was that tricky for you to get your hands around, that everybody's a little bit different?
Adam Hale: Oh, yeah, and I mean, it's still like nails on a chalkboard. Whenever I'm in somebody else's meeting, because, you know, there's things that I would say differently, or I would you know, that's human nature with anybody. But at the end of the day, I mean, we're measuring customer happiness, and the clients are super happy and what they're saying is it’s still great advice, it's just said differently. Or, you know, just people have different views. I mean, whenever it comes to advisory, there's always going to be that little piece that we have to focus on and kind of go our own way with. But, you know, going back to process, what process looks like for us at Summit, and what we've found to be successful is starting back with those core procedures and Jetpack. You know, whether it's a back office stuff, whether it's month end closing process, all that kind of stuff. What we do is we document every single one of those things that are repeatable. We create a video for it, and we create a task where we do a punch list of those 10 things that are in there. You know, Jamie, you're the creator of all this. And like you said to the team, it's like once you've done it two or three times, you have to go through all 10 things, right? You just click it off, that’s the big thing. But having that process, it reminds you and it's kind of your to do list, so we don't forget, because like you said, the clients really like the repeatability of what we do. It's very comforting. Even on the sales side, when we have a process for everything, they feel warm and fuzzy. You know, they've asked us a few questions like, well, what would we do here? Well, what would we do there? And as soon as I can say, well, we've got a process for that. This is how we do it. That really helps solidify the sales process.
Jamie Nau: You mentioned one word there that I was going to say. You get your money's worth out of this podcast, which I know podcasts are free, but if you want to get your money's worth out of this this podcast, the one word you mentioned there's video. I think using video for standard operating procedures is the best thing we've ever done. I think everybody uses YouTube to figure stuff out. The other day, my son had a Rubik's Cube. He's been obsessed with it. I’ve never been able to solve a Rubik's Cube. I popped up a YouTube video, we solved it in a couple hours. You know, we're able to get it all figured out by following the steps of that. So I think that's what we're trying to do with our organization. We want to have all of our processes explained in video because it's a lot easier, and it's a lot easier to follow through walking through the steps. Or if I'm out for a week and say, hey, Adam, can you do this task for me? Here's a video that tells you how to do, it can be a heck of a lot easier to see what those reports look like to follow the step by step because of those videos. So that's I think one of the best things we've done is implement the video process. I think for the people who are new to this, the one thing about videos is, don't be a super perfectionist when it comes to your videos. That will make the process take way too long. There's plenty of videos of me out there opening the wrong report, saying, oh, that's the wrong report. Then me closing it, reopening it. The important thing is just really getting the videos out and recorded so people can follow the steps of what you do. Not trying to be too perfect with it, because it may take 10 times, they'll take 10 tries to make sure everything is perfect.
Adam Hale: Oh, yeah, that was the worst. It's like you would sit there and record it, and you'd stop and record it, and stop. You just got to let it rip. Just turn on the record button, like you said, and just have do it. If you mess up, you mess up. I mean, the reality is, the person on the other end is probably messing up. That gives them a chance to catch up. You know, that kind of a thing. So, yeah, that's been huge. I mean, we used to have somebody on our team that was probably the best person that I've ever seen documenting procedures, and had screenshots and all these great things. I'm not the brightest person out there, but hell, I couldn't follow half of them. You know, usually I'm like going from one step to the next, and then all sudden something changed and I'm like, what is this? Whereas to your point, I go straight to YouTube if I'm trying to fix my lawnmower, or do this or do that, like I go straight to the video. I watched the person, I can see that it looks like what I'm looking at, and then I can get it done. And make them short. You don't want an hour long video, like just keep cutting them and adding them to the tasks. You know, try to keep them to just a couple minutes and just go, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang. And there's editing software out there, too. You can use your GoTo Meeting or your Zoom subscription if you want. There's a tool out there called Loom. That's really cool for doing those videos and making those edits.
Jamie Nau: Yeah, I definitely agree with cutting them down, making them short, making them digestible and into Adam's point early. You're not going to watch the video every month. You know, you're going to record it. You may have to remind yourself of the procedure here or there throughout the months. But the really the big thing is, having the standard operating procedures documented. Adam talked about this, in the book E-Myth, they talk about the binder, you know, they talk about the hotel, how he goes there, and how everything was perfect. Now we look at Jetpack as our binder. We want anybody to perform these tasks, month to month, and our clients won’t notice a difference whether I have Adam doing the procedures, or I am doing the procedures, we wanted to have that ability. Every month they know they will get this from Summit because it's done the same way, and that has really been game changing for us.
Adam Hale: So beyond the physical tasks of the bookkeeping in the back office, also in Jetpack are going to be the review procedures. So it's super important to us that everybody kind of reviews the information the same way, you know, the financial accuracy is very important. So being able to understand how to read a balance sheet, and go through and make sure the balance sheets are clean, and then go to the income statement. Then we have a few nuanced things that we like to do within our financial statement close process, just to make sure everything is presentable. So it doesn't matter which senior accountant I'm working with, I know that they've went through the same review process and things haven't been missed. That's also super important. So that's kind of like, the next layer up of our process. Then I would say the next process after that would be our, you know, our meeting cadence, because that's a process all on its own. We talked about that a little bit earlier, but really establishing a weekly cadence, because we're talking to our clients on a weekly basis. If you're not talking to them weekly, then the pressure is off a little bit, especially if you're only talking to them monthly. But if you're talking to them a couple times a month, being able to have that set name. I think that name, don't you think Jamie? Like that name was a specific thing that, you know, like having the agenda and what we might talk about in there, it made sense like a little description, but it just seemed like there was a ton of power whenever we just started to like name it the, forecasting meeting, or the pipeline meeting, or, you know, the revenue recognition meeting. Then it's like, oh, cool, I get that. She doesn't need to be there. He doesn't need to be there. I'm going to be the only one coming, and you get super sticky that way.
Jamie Nau: It was a big shift for us. I know for a while there we would just have a weekly CFO meeting, and it was a weekly recurring calendar, and it was there every week and that's what it was called in the first five minutes of the meeting. You'd have to remind the client what it was about. Oh, yeah, this is the first Thursday of the month, we're talking pipeline this month and then you'd spend five minutes talking about that every week. And then again, they think, oh, hold on, I forgot it was that meeting, let me go grab the sales guy real quick, or the BD guy real quick and bring him in here for that conversation. Once we made that shift instead of sending out weekly calendar invites to monthly calendar invites, I feel like a lot of things changed at Summit because as Adam said, the agenda was in there. People walked in knowing what that meeting was about. And to be honest, I mean, what those meetings could have been doesn't matter. I don't care what your three meetings are, two meetings are, how often they occur. There really is just setting a system in place and making sure you're following that and the client knows what they're walking into, that that's really the keys to those meetings. I think that was a huge shift for us.
Adam Hale: Yeah, and surprisingly, we didn't realize it. But some of the standard meetings that we thought we were having like you said, like on the third Thursday, it's supposed to be this or whatever, we thought everybody was doing it. Come to find out people were like, no, I don't do that meeting. And it's like, what do you mean you don't do that meeting? It was in the SOW. That's what we said we were going to do. So once we got on the same page again, that's another instance where having a set process around delivery really can make sure that you have a consistent product, especially as you scale and use other people.
Jamie Nau: It's super important, and it is not only for the client, but for the CFOs as well. So I know when I first started, and probably the first couple of CFOs after me, it was kind of a wonderland here. Like okay, what am I doing? How do I deliver to the client? How am I going to talk to the client every week. In those first couple trainings I went through I was just listening to Adam talk, and anybody that's been listening to these podcasts knows that Adam can talk. And so you'd sit in those meetings and watch him talk, and think, how in the world am I ever going to do that? Where nowadays when a new CFO starts, I show him or her the manual, I say, OK, first week of the month this is what you talk about. The second week of month this is what you talk about. This week of them month this is what you talk about. Then you go through that agenda with them, and you walk through it with them and you can see the relief on their face like, okay, I can do that. I can. Even though you're having the same number of meetings, you're having the same number of hours talking to the client. Just talking with a brand new CFO and saying this is what it's going to look like. This is our formula and this is how it's leveraged gives them that huge relief.
Adam Hale: And I think a lot of people already have a process around their delivery. I mean, what we're talking about, a lot of this stuff is standardization, too. So I know processes, you know, we're trying to standardize a lot of things. And then through the standardization, then you can kind of create the process. So they kind of go hand-in-hand. But, you know, we're even now getting to the point where, we had a pretty standard financial delivery, but it felt like we've been moving into the cloud over the last couple of months trying to get all of our stuff on dashboards. And I don't mean like that KUVO dashboards where they're kind of giving basic information, like we're still trying to bring that same level of detail that we bring to our clients where we can really tell the right story onto the dashboard. But what we found is that everybody's story is a little bit different. So what we've been working really hard at now, is to come up with a standard set of things that should be able to fit any client. And then, you know, so hopefully that's our 80 percent of our delivery process, our financials, and then we'll let everybody kind of go off the grid a little bit and add their own few extra dashboards that are more applicable to that client. So it really stretches in every part of the delivery of what we do from the back office staff, to the reviewing the financials, to creating the financials and then ultimately delivering the financials, or other conversations at the advisory level. Those processes are super important.
Jamie Nau: Yeah, and I think to that point it's made our seniors life a lot easier. So the seniors are the ones who are preparing these financials and preparing the slideshow that we present to the clients. And, you know, when I first took this role as director, I talked to some of the seniors and one of them pulled up three different slide shows. One for me, one for Adam, and one for a different CFO and said, this is what I do for you. This is what I do for Adam, and this is what I do for CFO number three. And they're completely different. I have to do this every month and they have to be completely different. So my thought processes is so complicated, and that's just for three of their CFOs. They're going to have anywhere from 10 to 25 clients. So once we discovered that was okay, we really need to standardize what we're delivering, not because we don't want people to be creative, like Adam said, we want 80 percent of it to be standards. That senior knows in there, what CFO their working with. They’re delivering the same thing. Now, they might have that one or two special report because we do want to be unique. And if one client really cares about GP and gross profit, and that's what their focus is on, it's okay for us to add an extra report or something like that to talk about that month. We just don't want the whole report to look different.
Adam Hale: Yeah, definitely. Even from a branding perspective and everything else, we just want to make sure everything's consistent. I think that's the biggest thing that I've noticed, that as we've scaled over the years, as you know, whenever there's only a couple of, you know, even under 10 I'm touching every client, I feel like I'm involved in the delivery of everything. I've got my hands around everything. But then as we grew to like 20 employees, and then 30 employees and then 40 employees, that just got further and further away from that stuff, and we just didn't realize how much process we didn't have in place. You know, whenever we'd hit those stress tests, and we would get 10 clients all at once, I was like, oh, wow, there's some clinks in the armor a little bit. And speaking of delivery and process, I guess there’s another place on boarding. Like you definitely have to have a process for on boarding because that is your first impression with the client. So if you don't look like you know what you're doing, or you don't come right out of the gates swinging and get into the heart of everything, it really sets the tone for the entire engagement. So that's another spot where we focused a lot of energy on, creating an on boarding team. So a lot of tools around that. Then after we did it, we realized it was too much of a process. So again, you can over engineer stuff pretty quick, and we did with that to the point where it was so systematic, that even though we intentionally told a client that we would get to everything in eight weeks, we created such a systematic process that we literally went like, this week we do this, and this week we do this, even though the client's priorities might be different. And so we're like six weeks in and the clients like, cool. I know you guys are all working and we're getting there, but I really need to know this. Or there was all of a sudden all this anticipation around a big reveal at eight weeks whenever we're finally done, like, here you go. That's a lot of pressure for us. I mean I don't know if you remember that Jamie?
Jamie Nau: I do remember, it's funny. We kind of had to build a process in, to make our process less of a process. It was this crazy thing we did like, okay, don't forget during the first week to ask them what their pain point is, and what do they want to get out of this relationship. And we make sure that's done in the first three weeks. That type of stuff we had to expand our process to make it less of a process, which kind of sounds weird, but it is so true. Like now our process is almost like a puzzle, like we know what the pieces are, but the order we put them in is going to be different. So we want to make sure that we do make it a little bit modified for each client. But yeah, there was a couple of times there we thought we had our great on boarding process because we worked so much on it. And then we start getting red cards during the on boarding, you know, saying this is way too systematic, and it's boring, and we're not getting to what we want to get done. So we realized pretty early on that we did over engineer that process.
Adam Hale: So you definitely can over engineer pretty quick if you make something to paint by numbers, and you can argue that maybe the person on the other end isn't, you know, they should be able to just naturally adapt and do those kind of things. But, you know, whenever you talk about process and you really emphasize it, that's their job. They come in and they go, oh, cool, I can do this. Bang, bang, bang, bang, bang. And so if you expect somebody just to be you and on the fly, be able to flip the script and change the pace, it's probably not going to happen. So I think that was a good analogy. You know, the puzzle pieces where they're all there, the order kind of shifts based on the client priorities. So we try to capture more of that even in the sales process. I think we've also done a better job of documenting that, and having a follow up call. So even whenever we close a deal, our process now that has changed, is that prior to on boarding and doing kick off, even though I've sent them an engagement letter, or my partner or somebody sent them an engagement letter, they sign off on it. We bring in Jamie as that next interview before kickoff. So Jamie, you know, so you can kick over the rocks and find out what's really at the heart of why they're coming to us. That way you can do a better job of prepping the on boarding team, right?
Jamie Nau: Yeah, it's a lot easier than trying to read your or Jody's handwriting of what you got.
Adam Hale: Yeah you can't read Jody’s handwriting, for sure.
Jamie Nau: Yeah from the notes you guys have taken from the marketing call or the sales calls, I am like, can I just talk to these guys for just 30 minutes prior to us starting the on boarding? Then I can relay that message to the team. And, you know, it's pretty cool. I've been in a couple on boarding meetings lately where we've walked in, and we've brought something up that we know is one of their pain points. And you could just see from them, all right, this company has it. They know what they're talking about. They communicate to each other, they are on the same page. Where in the past, we walk into it and ask, so what are you guys here for?
Adam Hale: And plus, you're the account manager. So at the end of the day, in our process, we also are measuring client happiness all the time. So during on boarding, we're sending them a customer thermometers tool we use, and just asking yellow, green and red. So when a recent red card comes in, and what it means is, we send an email, and you click green if everything's great. Yellow if things could be better or red, which means, call me right away. And so we're always measuring those on a weekly basis. And then once a client's into a normal rotation, we do it on a monthly basis. And then every six months we gauge our NPS. So we're actually meeting with the client. And I think for you, it's got to help you, right? Like being able to talk to the client before on boarding, if you hear any noise, or any kind of feedback during on boarding, it's going to help you with clarity in terms of jumping in and trying to account manage.
Jamie Nau: Oh, definitely. I think to your point, we've had clients that we've had for three years that, you know, when I jumped into this director role and I'm like, here I am, the new director of accounting, I want to have my six month NPS meeting with you, they're like, who are you? I want to talk to Adam. I've been talking to Adam for last two years. I'm used to talking to Adam. And, you know, now with any of these new on boarding clients, the fact that I have that pre call, any point I call them, they know who I am. They know what my role is, and they know that they can reach out to me even if it's a small thing. Oftentimes it's not earth shattering that if you don't do ABC, we're going to leave you tomorrow. A lot of times it's like, oh, I love what you guys do, but we haven't got to this yet or, you know, we haven't talked about this. So I think that's it does help me have that relationship early on, and it's helped with my role. And I think to that point, we've talked about a lot of process there, and I think it goes to show that there is process in every area of what we do. It's not just in the client delivery. It's not just the accounting process, there’s process around marketing and sales, and there's process around on boarding. So there's lots of different processes that you have to get around documenting. So we're getting close on time. So I want to plug our email address real quick. If you have any questions, any topics, or you want to be a guest, you can always email us at: email@example.com. We're always looking forward to hearing from listeners about what how we can make this podcast better. Again, the address is: firstname.lastname@example.org. So before we end here, Adam, any final thoughts on process that we didn't get to?
Adam Hale: Well, I mean, it's pretty endless, and the fact is, we've screwed them up and changed them so many ways that, you know, definitely leverage that email address that Jamie just dropped if you do have any questions. When I'm working with CPA firms, that's one of the things that we go through. So first thing we do is we go through the ideal client, and building out process from a sales perspective, and walking through that piece. But then we spend a lot of time talking about delivery process, because there's a big difference depending upon what kind of service you're going to deliver, whether it's tax, CFO and back office. You really got to hammer in those processes. So if you have any questions or anything, definitely reach out. Like I said, we've changed and modified, and I'm sure we will continue to. So happy to share what we've learned over the years for sure.
Jamie Nau: Yet that's the only guarantee, working at Summit is things are going to change because we're always re-evaluating our process, and it is important, and it's part of who we are, because we want to evolve. We don't want to sit still. So, yeah, definitely reach out to us with any questions. And that's part of why we do this podcast. You can learn from our mistakes. You know, there's things we've tried that haven't worked. So we will continue to deliver those here. So I want to thank Adam for your time, and the listeners for listening, and appreciate everybody listening to the show.
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